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Location: Mothership -> UFO -> Updates -> 1999 -> Dec -> Re: The Drake Equation

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Re: The Drake Equation

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:23:03 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:40:09 -0500
Subject: Re: The Drake Equation


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:17:59 EST
 >Subject: Re: The Drake Equation
 >To: updates@globalserve.net

 >>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:01:09 -0600
 >>Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:54:12 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: The Drake Equation


 >So some talent there, but apparently since dissipated on sex, drugs,
 >rock-and-roll ... and then debunking.

David,

And during the same time-frame, approximating, of course, you
were no doubt squandering your family's money on charm school,
which apparently was money down the drain.

So try this instead: Howabout a wonderful marriage and an
8-year-old son? How about creating The Anomalist out of thin
air? What about that Donald E. Keyhoe Journalism award for my
six-part series in OMNI? What about that UFO book I edited with
Hilary Evans, UFOs 1947-1997: Fifty Years of Flying Saucers?
What about editing the MUFON UFO Journal for 12 years? (Oh, I
forgot: the CIA made me do that.)

And for my next debunking effort? Check out:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380802651/

And you're contributing _what_ to the UFO literature in the
meantime? Pretty much zilch, as far as I can determine, but
maybe you'd like to enlighten the List if I'm wrong? Favor us
with a list of your UFO or relevant scientific publications,
please. None? Now why did I instinctively think that?

 >Thank you for your honesty here.

No thanks for honesty needed. Why would you expect anything else?

 >>That said (you asked), I wasn't criticizing Mallon's science so
 >>much as his use of the English language and some of his glib
 >>conclusions. (See my response to Jerry Clark's post.)

 >As will be clear soon, his language is the same as some of the experts
 >themselves who refer to the extra-solar planets as "confirmed."  His
 >conclusions are also the same as many of the astronomers, who comment that
 >the results suggest that solar systems are probably dirt common.  E.g., one
 >quote by Geoff Marcy, one of the pioneers astronomers in the detection of
 >extra-solar planets, was that these early results suggest that there are
 >probably hundreds of millions of earth-like planets in our galaxy.

If you want this feather in your cap, I'll happily concede the
point. See, I went to charm school, too. I responded as I did
because it so happened that the very day I read the Mallon
quotes the NY Times had a headline announcing the first
confirmation by direct observation of an extrasolar planet. As a
professional writer myself, I wouldn't have used the same words
Mallon did, such as "sudden profusion of confirmed planet
detections" -- and that's still my opinion. But I'm confident
you'll get over it.

That said, you have your experts, I have mine. Here are a
couple:

"David C. Black of the Lunar and Planetary Institute in Houston,
Texas considers Gatewood's sighting to be the only one that
would satisfy his definition of what a planet is. "It is not
clear that any of the others have anything to do with planets,"
he says, arguing that they probably formed in a fundamentally
different way than the planets that orbit the sun."  See:

http://www.sciam.com/explorations/052796explorations.html

And this:

http://cannon.sfsu.edu/~gmarcy/planetsearch/bd/ecc.html

Which contains the following:

"The occurrence of circular orbits may require special initial
conditions, to avoid the gravitational perturbations and to
avoid the tendency of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics to scramble
the orbital ellipticities of planets. Perhaps, our Solar System,
with its coplanar, nearly circular orbits represents a
remarkably fortuitous low-entropy state for a planetary system."

Note the use of the phrase "remarkably fortuitous."

When we get past the snide personal remarks and Rudiak's
tendency to endlessly nitpick (this is a man who could nitpick
an elephant to death with a pair of tweezers), we're left with
the following:

The solar systems presently being discovered in no way resemble
our own; They were completley unanticipated and cannot be
accounted for by current theories of solar system formation,
unless Rudiak would like to correct me. (Charm school pays off?)

They are planets and solar system by name only.

I don't really have the time or inclnation to go into this(
having dissipated so much of my available energies on drugs,
sex, and rock and roll), but the reason why astronomers can
refer to something as a Class-G sun has to do with their
realization that not all suns (or stars) are created equally.
Hence a clasification system.

Yes, Rudiak is right if he wants to say that almost any
sparkling light in the night sky is a sun and any conglomerated
body circling same a planet, and that the combination of the two
constitutes a solar system by definition -- thereby, somehow
(and inevitably) leading to more creatures like us, only more
advanced.

But it doesn't take too much deep reading or shallow Internet
surfing to see that Rudiak's main gripe is both a canard and a
red herring (intermixed with anything I have to say about
anything).

The "solar systems" presently being discovered in no way
resemble our own; for the most part it is hard to imagine how
they could have given rise to life at all, let alone ETI. That
is, they are non-starters from the word get-go.

What I suggested was, that as time went along, scientists would
find a new terminology to refer to such systems, just as they
can now look at stars spread throughout the universe and refer
to them as Class-G or other type stars.

Rudiak seems to be opposed to this idea, seemingly arguing that
all clasification systems are already fixed -- for now and
evermore. Or that while we can apply them to suns (hey, I
thought all suns were the same by definition?), we can't apply
them to planets and solar systems.

My viewpoint remains the same. Rudiak needs to go back to charm
school. That, or drugs and rock and roll. Nothing else seems to
help much.

Dennis Stacy






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