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From: Loy Pressley <lkpres@koyote.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:25:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:17:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Gore UFO?


 >Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:04:54 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: updates@globalserve.net
 >Subject: Re: Gore UFO?

 >>Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:10:13 -0500
 >>From: Loy Pressley <lkpres@koyote.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Gore UFO?


<snip>

 >>One problem:

 >>I take it that Air Force 2 was enroute when the incident
 >>occurred.  That means that he was in controlled air space and
 >>probably above 30,000 feet in altitude.  Not very many small,
 >>uncontrolled aircraft at that altitude or that would even appear
 >>to be at that altitude.  In fact, I think the FAA gives you a
 >>"ticket" for being in controlled airspace and not talking to an
 >>air traffic control center.

 >More like shoot you dead right on the spot when you land, Loy.
 >They get real testy about that.

Yep.  I was trying to be tactful about it.  I think you can loose
your license very quickly for that.

 >>I also beg to differ with the statement that "it happens all the
 >>time".  It might during an approach to an airfield or during the
 >>climb to altitude but it certainly doesn't happen very often
 >>elsewhere.

 >That's the problem. It doesn't state where this happened. But
 >even so in an aircraft even 30,40 or 50 miles out, the target
 >will show up as a blip without the controller having any idea
 >what the type and altitude is. Unless it was transponder/Mode -
 >C equipped which obviously this UFO wasn't.

Show my age...it was Mode IV for altitude readout when I was
doing it.

If it occurred in a terminal area and AF 2 was not at enroute
altitude I would say it is a lot more likely that it was a small
aircraft.  If AF 2 was at enroute altitude for a 747 with
priority flight following I think it was a lot more likely that
the other "object" was anomalous.  Even without altitude readout
on the controller's scope, the controller would have been able
to easily compute the speed of the anomalous blip.  The higher
up you go the faster you must travel to maintain altitude.  The
difference between the speed of traffic at an enroute altitude
and the speed of a small plane at a much lower altitude would
have been readily apparent to the controller, i.e., say 100-200
knots versus 350-450 knots or higher.  If, in fact, AF 2 was
enroute, I think the controller would have said something to
that effect and it would not have necessitated such a drastic 60
degree turn.

If, however, AF 2 was ascending or descending, all bets are off.

 > As for happening all of the time, at our field we have a winch
 >launch glider operation, and on a good [thermalling] day these
 >things get up to 10,000 feet or more.Radar at Halifax
 >international picks them up all of the time. No transponders.
 >Since they're NOTAMed, Terminal and the tower knows about them
 >and at times has to vector the heavies around them. Our power
 >a/c are picked up all of the time and we [our airfield] are on
 >the 315 radial out of Hfx. at a distance of 25 miles. We have a
 >ceiling of 1,700 feet we have to observe-unlike the gliders
 >[which go figure]-but I quite often hear TCU advising traffic
 >inbound at 3-10,000 feet [Dash-8s like to show off their steep
 >descent rates] and maybe 30 miles back from the airport, that
 >they have traffic-type and altitude unknown on their track.

Agreed!  But you don't normally get those kinds of advisories if
you're enroute.

 >Hey it's still a UFO until it's not. Don't they call them RIs
 >[radar intercepts] or something now?

I don't know.  I've been out of it for so long I don't know the
current terminology.

One of the things that bothers me about this instance is the lack
of publicity about it.  Usually, if Air Force Whatever has to
divert from its path for any reason, it is all over the news.
Not this time.  I would think that if it was a "normal" event
involving a lite plane or unauthorized access to controlled
airspace or something like that, the authorities wouldn't rest
until they had found whoever did it.  I've heard very little, if
anything, about this incident, which makes me believe that there
is something out of the ordinary about it.  Doesn't have to be a
UFO in the classic sense.  Could be something relatively normal.

Loy