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From: Dave Bowden <dave.bowden@cableinet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:16:29 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:47:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Sheffield UFO Incident 2?


 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sheffield UFO Incident 2?
 >Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:57:04 -0300

 >>Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:14:34 +0000
 >>From: dave bowden <dave.bowden@cableinet.co.uk>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Sheffield UFO Incident 2?

<snip>

 >>After reading your percentages I would be interested to know
 >>what your percentage is for confirmed alien contact.

 >There is a serious semantic difficulty here. I have no idea what
 >is meant here by "confirmed alien contact" or why it would be
 >required. Does this mean a BBC reporter taking down name and
 >address of visiting aliens? An appearance on the Larry King show
 >by an alien showng his driver's license?.

Oh yes big yuks, but if only that were true. If there were such
a thing as 'confirmed' alien contact I'm sure we all would
expect nothing less than the joke you have just put forward, or
even something beyond that, perhaps a spot on the Letterman
show.

 >I speak of evidence. Science is a way of answering questions.
 >Sometimes one can conduct totally controllable, reproducible
 >experiments in a lab Sometimes one has to deal with predictable
 >events that can't be controlled, but can be predicted and, if
 >conditions are right, observed such as an eclipse. Because
 >eclipses do occur certainly doesn't mean that I can cause them
 >to occur and be seen when and where I would like.

 >There is a third kind of event unpredictable and uncontrollable
 >that one can be ready to observe such as solar storms,
 >earthquakes.

 >Finally there are events involving the world of intelligent
 >beings such as murder, automobile and airplane crashes, rapes
 >etc.

Intelligent? you mean humans?? Dolphins are intelligent, they
don't drive cars, rape or murder or even fly air planes. But I'm
just being silly.

 >As I wrote I am convinced that _some_ so called UFOs, after
 >careful investigation, can rationally be judged to be
 >intelligently controlled ET spacecraft. That doesn't answer such
 >questions as the names and origins of the occupants, the mode of
 >propulsion, the motivaton of the pilots, etc. The appearance
 >says they are manufactured. The combination of behavior and
 >appearance says they originate elsewhere. Since the obvious most
 >important aspect to governments re flying saucers is their
 >technology useful for military applications,the craft observed
 >did not originate here on Earth.

In other words you are jumping to a conclusion based on
available info.

 >This is frankly silly. The BBSR 14 definition of 'unknown' "was
 >assigned to those reports of sightings wherein the description
 >of the object and its maneuvers could not be fitted to the
 >pattern of any known object or phenomenon". There was no
 >category for ET spacecraft.

This is not frankly silly, it's just frank. If one can
categories a true ET encounter then why not just say it?
Otherwise we're just left with a whole bunch of 'unknowns' which
translates as 'your guess is as good as mine'.

In other words the BBSR 14 definition of 'unknown' was.....
Your guess is as good as mine.

 >>It is a fact that a 747 lands at London airport every 20 minutes
 >>or so, if you don't believe me just walk out on the tarmac and
 >>touch the vehicle.

 >>When have we ever had _that_ kind of physical evidence?

 >Why would one expect to?

Well if one were looking for physical proof maybe?

 >Obviously the pilots are interested in
 >doing other things. Ted Phillips has, on the other hand,
 >collected more than 5000 physical trace cases from 65 countries
 >with more than 1000 involving observations of unusual beings in
 >association with the unusual craft landing in unusual places and
 >also being able to take off from those same places. These cases
 >involve evidence as do the many pilot cases (Dr. Richard Haines
 >has collected more than 3500) and the many radar visual cases...
 >and also in abduction cases. One makes do with the evidence that
 >is available even if it doesn't include a craft in the middle of
 >the world series. I would certainly be pleased if the US
 >government would relase pieces of the Roswell wreckage.. I don't
 >expect that to happen any more than I expect them to auction off
 >atomic bombs to the highest bidder . Though admittedly I really
 >believe they have such bombs, despite one not being where I can
 >touch it.

Which brings us back to the alien thing doesn't it.

I agree with you totally about the strange objects in our skies.
Yes the evidence is overwhelming, that there's something odd
occupying our airspace. My argument is where they originate
from. To say they are of alien origin is just anothers guess.

 >>In the words of Carl Sagan 'bring me a piece of a flying
 >>saucer'.

 >As I noted in TOP SECRET/MAJIC and in a number of papers, Carl
 >Sagan has said many foolish and unscientific things about flying
 >saucers. This is one. Should I demand a piece of a black hole in
 >order to believe that they exist?

 >Should a woman who has been raped have to provide an ID card for
 >the rapist?

No of course not, but asking for a piece of flying saucer in the light
of your examples would seem quite small.

 >>As far as the polls are concerned how many people were asked if
 >>they believed in Angels? The result was rather high again.

 >This silly.

This is silly.

Why? check it out, the amount of people who believe in Angels is
also rather high. If a poll was conducted using humans aged no
more than 6, asked if they believed in Santa Claus the result
would be high yet again. Shall we all believe in Santa Claus
based on the result? Irrelevant.

 >>Roy's original question was:
 >
 >>>Could you please tell us if you personally believe at anytime
 >>>in the last 25yrs or perhaps beyond that there has been at
 >>>least one visit to this planet by any form of Extraterrestrial
 >>>craft?

 >>That is a very good question and since there are so many
 >>'ufologists' out there maybe one kind soul could answer that
 >>(what I perceive to be) simple question.

 >I answered it in my posting. I believe the evidence is
 >overwhelming that Planet Earth is being visited by intelligently
 >controlled ET spacecraft:Some so-called UFOs are alien vehicles.
 >I should think that is very straight forward and unambiguous.

So basically the answer is _yes_ I believe. And YES there is
overwhelming evidence of something odd occupying our skies. But
NO there is no evidence of alien visitation.

Sorry to be a real PITA (figure it out for yourselves).