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From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:15:03 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:40:38 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Self-Proclaimed Leaders Of Ufology'


 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: 'Self-Proclaimed Leaders Of Ufology'
 >Date: Thu, 29 Jul 99 11:51:47 PDT

 >>From: Jerry Black <blackhole60@hotmail.com>
 >>To: updates@globalserve.net
 >>Subject: 'Self-Proclaimed Leaders Of Ufology'
 >>Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:02:01 PDT


 >>I would now like to refer to remarks you made about my comments
 >>concerning the "self-proclaimed leaders of ufology".

 >>You knew exactly what I meant, however I will explain that for
 >>you and to all the internet readers. The "self-proclaimed
 >>leaders of ufology" are those who appear most frequently on TV,
 >>or appear at most of the UFO symposiums throughout the country.
 >>Snip

 >Wrong, old boy, unless you can provide specific evidence -- I'm
 >talking quotes here, not broad, sweeping charges -- that any of
 >these individuals have declared _themselves_ "leaders of
 >ufology." That's what "self-proclaimed" means.  You're referring
 >to persons who, for one reason or another, for good or ill, are
 >prominent figures in this field.  Whether they are "leaders" is
 >quite another issue, much less "self-proclaimed" ones.
 >

Dr. Jerome Clark, how dare you NOT mention my name in this post.
I have indeed declared myself to be "The, Self Proclaimed
Ufological Ex Spurt."  Not mentioning my name is demeaning. And
after all I've done to try to get you to allow us to publish
your stuff. All that free, fresh wine and everything.
Ingrate! Fink! However, if you please, I will consider
publishing the next heavy books(s) you write.  Only the heavy
ones, please.  They make great substitoots for Canal Street and
Bowery feet, which are getting very expensive these days.  Not
only do they want free Gripple, but they demand money for food.
Ingrates!

 >If you want to criticize some well-known individual for his/her
 >views or behavior, fine.  But it's bizarre to criticize persons
 >on the lame, unfair, and manifestly false grounds that they have
 >proclaimed _themselves_ ufology's leaders.  Reading this, I have
 >a hard time, to be honest, taking you seriously.

Why not?

 >>The Whitley Strieber
 >>show Confirmation was produced with no intent to authenticate
 >>the Strieber claim of experiences with the visitors. Just
 >>because he has written a book and is a well-established author,
 >>they decided to do a special on TV using him as an executive
 >>producer. So the general public cannot rely on TV to give them
 >>the true answer to the cases that we see on TV and are written
 >>in books.
 >Snip

 >I'm confused.

Me too, Jerry.

<snip>

 >Once more, please cite -- again, I am asking for specific quotes
 >-- who has appointed him- or herself a "leader" of ufology.  I
 >have been around this field probably longer than you have, and
 >to the best of my recollection, I have _never_ heard anyone call
 >himself a "leader" of ufology.  The closest thing I can imagine
 >a "leader" to be is the head of a specific UFO group, which is
 >hardly the same animal as all of ufology.  In my limited
 >experience of UFO groups (my only organizational affiliation has
 >been with CUFOS), the heads are not "self-appointed" but elected
 >by a board of directors. Thus, for example, Mark Rodeghier is
 >not the "self-appointed leader" of CUFOS.

Dear Black person, I will answer this one on your behalf.  I
hope you don't mind.  I, Dr. J. Jamie Gesundt, declare that I am
a self procaimed and appointed UFO Ex Spurt and leader of UFO
stuff.  Satisfied, Clark?  Huh?

 >>In my opinion, neither of these aforementioned are
 >>doing their jobs at keeping the general public informed of which
 >>cases are credible and which cases do not deserve attention. I
 >>also do not think the Mutual UFO Network and the "self-appointed
 >>leaders of ufology" are doing a good, sound, scientific and
 >>objective job when they do investigate these cases.

You are quite correct.  This is my job.

 >If you are saying that the MUFON UFO Journal ought not to be
 >running articles on alien skeletons, I'm with you, friend.

FIEND... FIEND.... get it right.

 >>As you stated, Mr. Jerome Clark, your organization does not have
 >>the time or money to really get into investigating current cases
 >>out there in ufology, besides the fact of putting your opinion
 >>of cases in your monthly journal. So I am not accusing you of
 >>not doing a good job of investigating current cases, because as
 >>you have told me: you are not doing "any" job of investigating
 >>current UFO cases. You are simply making small reports in your
 >>journal which are merely opinions.

 >Actually, not.  IUR, which I'm sure you don't read or you
 >wouldn't have typed the above nonsense, carries investigative
 >pieces as well as insightful analytical overviews.  For example,
 >the current issue (available from J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >Studies, 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60659 --
 >thanks for the opportunity to put in the plug) carries a 14-page
 >investigative review, by Bill Chalker (prominent, well-regarded
 >Australian ufologist who has never to my knowledge proclaimed
 >himself to be a "leader" of the field), of apparent biological
 >evidence associated with an abduction case.  The same issue
 >carries two first-rate analytical essays by Mark Cashman
 >("Behavioral Classification System for UFO Occupants") and
 >Thomas E. Bullard ("Abductions and Researcher Bias: How to Lose
 >Your Way").  I happen to think we're putting out the best UFO
 >magazine in America, and a lot of people agree, if we can credit
 >the comments and letters we get from readers who appreciate our
 >sober, balanced, informed approach.

 >>While your friendship with some of these "self-proclaimed
 >>leaders of ufology" may keep you from making certain remarks
 >>about their work, it certainly doesn't stop me. I will continue
 >>to keep making remarks that I feel is necessary as long as they
 >>continue to do the job they are doing at this particular time.

 >Before you get any more carried away on a tidal wave of self-
 >righeousness, you need -- let me say it again -- to tell us when
 >and where these individuals have proclaimed themselves "leaders
 >of ufology."

Damn you Clark, I already answered that one.  Stop repeating
yourself.

 >>I, however, agree with you that there are many people out there
 >>who do a tremendous job who hardly get any ink, get no time on
 >>national radio or TV, but do a tremendous job in trying to help
 >>find the answer to the UFO phenomena. Some of those people are:
 >>Jenny Randles, Tom Dueley, Ray Fowler, Dan Wright, Tom Adams,
 >>Glenn Joyner, Mark Rodheigher, Rex Salisberry, and the list
 >>could go on and on. But these people, because of family or other
 >>responsibilities, do not have the time needed to allow
 >>themselves to be leaders in the field of ufology and attend the
 >>national symposia in the country, or to appear on national TV
 >>or radio. I wish that some of these people would do so.

 >Odd.  Jenny Randles, whom I also admire, is quite well known,
 >even outside ufology, in Britain for her many media appearances.
 >Mark Rodeghier, who leads CUFOS, has appeared on a number of
 >television programs, radio shows, and videos, and he is a
 >regular at national symposia.  In fact, he goes to, and speaks
 >at, many more than I do. Tom Adams has not been active as a
 >ufologist for years; his principal interest for a long time has
 >been alleged mutilations of cattle. Tom Deuley is a ubiquitous
 >presence on the UFO scene, deeply involved with MUFON and the
 >Coalition, and I've run into Dan Wright on a number of occasions
 >at conferences.  Ray Fowler has written many books, toured to
 >promote them, and been a guest on numerous UFO shows on TV and
 >radio. Aside from noting the obvious inaccuracy of your
 >characterization above, I am at a loss to grasp your point,
 >unless it's that the above are good people and the other people
 >are not.

Jenny is a woman.  And having been married for more than thirty
years and having had my mommy and daddy married for over 60
years, I can tell you what that means.  Only off line and on a
secure phone. They can punish a man very painfully, you know.
Even without a knife.

 >>Finally, Mr. Clark, you have said that honorable men have come
 >>down on both sides of the case in Gulf Breeze, Florida. I
 >>certainly agree that all the gentlemen and ladies mentioned as
 >>"self-proclaimed leaders of ufology" are likely honorable
 >>people, some of whom have earned Ph.D.'s. All that means is that
 >>honorable men and women, some of whom have Ph.D's, can at times
 >>be lousy UFO investigators.

 >Like you, I have deep doubts about the core claims of the Gulf
 >Breeze episode.  On the other hand, I have much respect for
 >Bruce Maccabee's intelligence, knowledge, and ability.  If you
 >want to argue photoanalysis with him, I'm afraid you're going to
 >lose.

 >Again, if you want to criticize certain prominent ufologists for
 >what you perceive to be their shortcomings, you have every right
 >to do so.  Nobody's perfect, God knows.  Unfortunately, the
 >criticisms you've given us so far seem irrelevant, self-serving,
 >and even spurious.  Or, as the Bard says,  sound and fury,
 >signifying nothing.

 >Jerry Clark

Horse hockey.  I am perfect.

In conclusion, and with respect to my opinion of Mr. Dr. Black's
comments....

"Mmfff frpppp lousy stinkin no good bbfhfiuhw@#**!"

Dr. J. Jaime Gesundt