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From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:28:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 22:00:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Crop Circle Characteristics - 'Real' vs. Fake


>Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:03:18 -0400
>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Crop Circle Characteristics - 'Real' vs. Fake
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>,
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: Crop Circle Characteristics - 'Real' vs. Fake

>>Thanks for listing them, Tony. I suppose if there were as many
>>as 500 such reports, they would still be dismissed as anecdotal,
>>for the same reason that several hundred thousand screened UFO
>>reports are treated the same way by negative skeptics. But it
>>would be interesting to interview these four persons and form
>>one's own opinion as to their sincerity and character.

>Do you have the full details of what these eyewitnesses actually
>claim to have seen? If so, I'd like to view their accounts and
>details of the alleged formations that were created.

>>But at least Terence Meaden thought these witnesses' reports were
>>worth noting, which is more than most anti-UFO advocates would do.

>I have noted it also but a few names, dates and vague areas
>doesn't constitute worthwhile testimony. Where are the full
>accounts of what these people saw?

>>For the same reason that hoaxed crop circles in oil-seed rape
>>are extremely rare. That thick-stemmed crop consists of quite
>>bushy plants that are rather unmanageable when you get in there
>>with your boards and all. I suppose someone has tried to make a
>>crop circle in it, but if so, they must have left quite a mess
>>of broken and irregularly tangled stems.

>Firstly, you seem to be implying here that I have a set of
>boards, just because I believe that circles are man made doesn't
>make me a circle maker. You believe some formations are UFO
>created, that doesn't make you an alien <g>

>Secondly, have you actually tried to create a circle in oil-seed
>to test your theory? From what I've learned, crop is cushoned by
>other crop when flattening, which shelters an extremely large
>percentage of stems from being broken. Some apparently are
>broken, but barring checking every single stem a cerealogist
>wouldn't obviously see them. You mentioned 'Circular Evidence'
>before, Colin Andrews explained how crop can not be flattened
>using string across the radius as the pressure is too great, so
>we have evidence that what the circle makers say is likely to be
>correct.

>Thirdly, what of the alleged tell tale signs that a circle is genuine
>can be found in the oil-seed formations, i.e. exploded nodes, etc. ?

>>Do you mean, Why did the formations evolve from circles and
>>formations of circles to much more complex patterns?

>I didn't actually, I meant why the vortex theory, ley line
>theory, eti theory, none can be hoaxed, some can be hoaxed, most
>can be hoaxed, only the true geometric formations are genuine,
>those which aren't are significant etc. etc. It seems that each
>time the cerealogists are caught out they come back with an
>alternative theory which claims a mystery. Doesn't it seem that
>they are literally clutching at straws to make a mystery out of
>something that is purely man made?

>>their strategy could be similar relative to crop circles -- to give
>>the skeptics the option of not being forced to believe in the
>>reality of what they would prefer to ignore.

>The circle makers have disclosed for years how they make crop
>circles, perhaps it's the believers that UFOs are connected are
>the ones who prefer to ignore the reality of the circles?


Hi,

I have been following this debate with interest, as I trust has
Paul Fuller. Paul and I have written three books on circles and
been involved since before Colin Andrews and Pat Delgado even.
We have spent a lot of time collating eyewitness accounts and
both of us have interviewed some. Dozens of cases exist and you
will find plenty in the l993 updated edition of our book 'Crop
Circles: A Mystery Solved?'  (Robert Hale).

In essence eyewitnesses describe glowing rotating dome shaped
lights at night (often with electrical effects) and dark, grey,
misty lens shapes in daytime (often generating electroststic
fields).

One vital key is that we never found a single case where a
witness saw a complex formation created. Nearly all eyewitnesses
are to simple, single circles. Eyewitness cases date back a long
time and we have examples from pre 20th century.

Hope this helps.