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From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:05:09 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 12:40:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Crop Circle Characteristics - 'Real' vs. Fake

>Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:30:14 -0400
>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Crop Circle Characteristics - 'Real' vs. Fake
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:51:19 -0700 (PDT)
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>Subject: Re: Crop Circle Characteristics - 'Real' vs. Fake

>>I don't know who, if anyone, has any written reports, full or
>>partial, from these four. I suppose Colin Andrews or other
>>British crop-formation investigators would be the ones to
>>contact on that.

>Noye's book claimed that Andrews and Delgado ignored these
>reports as they were daytime sightings, and they were trying to
>prove that formations only appeared at night. So much for
>objective research!

Yes, that's what Meaden said there. If true, that's almost as
bad as those ufologists who automatically ignore reports and
evidence from those claiming to be contactees, because they're
not abductees!

>Given that a few of the oil-seed rape formations this year seem
>to refer to the solar eclipse in August, do you think the aliens
>are going to present themselves?

Well, like Clinton, I would need to know what you mean by
"present." They have of course already presented themselves to
thousands of abductees and to the legitimate contactees. But
they've left only meager evidence behind. So perhaps what you
mean is, will they do so (in August), this time leaving all
kinds of irrefutable evidence behind? I doubt it; their
escalation in degree of firmness and abundance of evidence seems
to be growing only gradually over the years.

>Or what other meaning do you think the formations have?

Your guess may be as good as mine; I think they have the same
educational purposes as the rest of the crop circles and
formations have had, and which likewise the UFO sightings and
contacts have had.

>>Here's one for you to  ponder, since you have Noyes' (editor)
>>_The Crop Circle Enigma_. Go to p. 22 of that book and you'll
>>see diagrams made by Terence Meaden and Colin Andrews of the
>>crop circle of 1 Aug. '86 at Headbourne Worthy, Hampshire. It
>>was a two-layer system, with an underlayer swirled one way and
>>an upper layer above it, covering it, swirled such that the lay
>>of the [upper-layer] stems was at right angles to that of the
>>layer just underneath. The diagrams depict the direction of the
>>respective swirls. The photograph of it is shown on p. 36 of
>>_Circular Evidence_  by Delgado & Andrews.

>Thanks, I'll definitely check that out.

>>You won't find any crop-circle naysayer talking about this one,
>>or speculating on how it could have been hoaxed, or trying to
>>demonstrate how it might be hoaxed. That's because it's pretty
>>mind-boggling just to wonder about. You have to imagine that
>>somehow every other crop stem out of the many thousands was
>>first bent over (without breaking the stems) in one direction of
>>swirl while the remaining stems all around stood intact. Then,
>>these intact stems were bent over with a swirl at right angles
>>to the swirl given to the other stems.

>Have you asked any circle makers how this could be done?

No, I don't know Doug and Dave's address. I do know that one
usually receives only silence or a change of subject upon posing
the question to skeptics. So I'll stay tuned for any idea you
put forth on how it could be feasibly accomplished for a circle
as large as 57 feet in diameter. It was probably no accident
that the upper-layer circle of swirled stems did not entirely
cover the under layer at the circumference -- if they had, the
lower lower might not have been discovered.

>If those signs are to be taken seriously surely they should
>appear in oil-seed rape as you claim they are alien made?

I haven't kept up on it in enough detail, Tony, to know. I would
not assume that the tests haven't been made by Levingood on
stems from oil-seed rape crop circles.

>You'll find that crop bent at different heights is just a
>natural effect, I gather you saw the program 'Secrets of Crop
>Circles'.

No, I didn't see that. I was referring to certain crop-circle
reports wherein the stems within a given formation were all bent
over at the *same* approximate height, like 1" or 2" or 4" above
the ground, as opposed to the usual 1/4" or so, which trampling
on it can try to simulate.

>Can you name any crop circle maker that has been caught at all?

I haven't kept track of the names of any of the admitted hoaxers
other than the first names Doug & Dave. I was referring to those
hundreds of crop circles over the years that have been
astounding in their size, complexity, creative design,
bending-over of the stems with minimal breakage, and other
features such as braiding.

Their makers were never caught, whereas common sense dictates
that if humans had done them, a substantial percentage would
have been caught in the act, and/or have left tell-tale signs
behind.

  Jim Deardorff