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From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 01:02:34 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 03:13:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Voyager Newsletter, Mogul Parchment Parachutes


>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 20:46:23 -0500
>Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 06:58:11 -0400
>Subject: Re: Voyager Newsletter, Mogul Parchment Parachutes

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 21:17:52 EDT
>>Subject: Re: Voyager Newsletter, Mogul Parchment Parachutes
>>To: updates@globalserve.net

<snip>

>> Don't get me started.

<snip>

>>David Rudiak

>Getting you started isn't the problem, believe me.

No, the real problem is shutting you up.

Please notice the subject matter of the thread:  Mogul
"parchment" parachutes.  Now what the hell does the following
Stacy junk have to do with that?

>Now that you are, however, perhaps you would be so kind as to
>answer the following questions, based on your own mathematical
>analysis of same (And please feel free to call on Maccabee or
>others as required. Hell, if you want, you can even refer to
>Arnold.):

>1) How many non-Mogul alien UFOs crashed at or near Roswell in the summer of
1947?

>2) Where and when?

>3) How many bodies were recovered?

>4) Where were they sent? Did they pass through Roswell?

>5) What cover up and investigative organization resulted as a consequence?

>6) If MJ-12, please supply proof. If not MJ-12, please supply proof.

>7) Does that mean that you support those MJ-12 documents that have surfaced
or not?

>8) How much of the Corso/Birnes book is true?

>Sorry to have got you started. But trust you can finish.

>Dennis Stacy


This is standard Dennis Stacy diversionary raving.  A serious
weakness of one pro-Mogul skeptical argument is shown.  Since he
won't or can't address that, Stacy has to go off on half a dozen
tangeants:  MJ12, alien bodies, Corso/Birnes, JFK, Jimmy Hoffa,
Monica Lewinsky, etc.  All are about equally relevant as to
whether probably non-existent small paper parachutes explain
descriptions of large quantities of parchment-like material
covered with strange writing and resistant to burning and
cutting.

But if we must go off on Stacian tangeants, here are some quick
comments:

1.  Body recoveries:  The memo Gen. Ramey is clutching in his
hand and now being analyzed by several different groups clearly
references "the VICTIMS of the wreck you forwarded to .... at
Fort Worth, Tex."  There's no question about provenance here, is
there?  Ramey's standing over the body clutching the smoking
gun.  If the timing of the memo alone doesn't make obvious the
victims and wreck being referenced,  the next line mentions "the
'disc'" and the line after that has "Roswell" in it.  Then
towards the end is the mention of "weather balloons," apparently
in reference to the "story" being put out.

Nah, must have been referring to some other "wreck" and
"victims."  Or maybe Mogul carried some experimental hamsters
which were dropped back to earth with those "parchment"
parachutes?  For economy and to confuse potential Rooskie spies,
instructions for their care and feeding were written on the
'chutes in ancient Sumerian.

2.  MJ-12 type organization:

The following make such an organization quite possible IMHO.
The 1950 Smith/Sarbacher memos clearly reference a saucer-study
organization, "a small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush," and
classified "higher than the H-bomb."  Ruppelt in his book has
several sly references to another organization(s) conducting
secret saucer investigations and running in parallel to the more
public Projects Sign, Grudge, and Blue Book.  See, e.g., his
comments on the 1948 Estimate of the Situation (how the "other
investigative organization that was helping ATIC" took over most
of the investigation from Sign after Vandenberg shot down the
Estimate) and the 1951 Lubbock Lights ("The only other peope
outside Project Blue Book who have studied the complete case of
the Lubbock Lights were A GROUP WHO, DUE TO THEIR ASSOCIATION
WITH THE GOVERNMENT, HAD COMPLETE ACCESS TO OUR FILES.  And
these people were not pulp writers or wide-eyed fanatics, they
were SCIENTISTS--ROCKET EXPERTS, NUCLEAR PHYSICISTS, AND
INTELLIGENCE EXPERTS.")  Who were these guys?

Gen. Exon flat out said his information on Roswell was that it
was a crash of an alien spaceship with bodies recovered, he was
aware of other crash recoveries (Kecksburg?) during his tenure
as C/O of Wright-Patterson in the '60's, and he was also aware
of a military version of an MJ-12 type organization (which he
called the "Unholy 13") during his tenure in the Pentagon in the
1950's.

Should I also mention the mysterious IPU or Interplanetary
Phenomena Unit of which we know little other than it apparently
existed sometime in the 1940's and 1950's and dealt with things
obviously not simply foreign but "Interplanetary?"  How about
Project Moon Dust and Operation Blue Fly, clear evidence of
rapid response recovery teams in place to retrieve "objects of
unknown origin" from space, including allegedly downed UFOs?

And just lately, Bob and Ryan Wood are looking into a CIA
document on UFOs released under FOIA which at the end says that
a copy of the memo was being forwarded to -- gasp -- "MJ-12!"  A
copy of the document was given them by the controversial Timothy
Cooper.  That still raises the usual issue of provenance.  The
Woods are now making an independent FOIA request to the CIA for
the same document.  If they get back an identical copy from the
CIA as given them originally by Cooper, that would just about
prove the existence of an organization actually called "MJ-12"
and its association with secret high-level UFO investigations.

There, satisfied?

David Rudiak