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Location: Mothership -> UFO -> Updates -> 1999 -> Mar -> Re: Trent and Rouen Images

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Re: Trent and Rouen Images

From: James Easton <pulsar@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:28:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:55:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images


Regarding..

>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:57:13 EST
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Trent and Rouen Images

David Rudiak wrote:

>I just see a lot more handwaving and arguing around the point
>here. Sorry to raise this painful topic, but I remember the same
>sort of vague and slippery Eastonian arguments with regard to
>his pelican explanation for the Kenneth Arnold sighting.


David,

Keeping this separate..

What may be a conceivable explanation for Kenneth Arnold's
sighting, originated as a result of a query I had raised on a
knowledgeable 'birdwatchers' discussion list.

Realising it seemed nobody had ever questioned ornithologists
about Arnold's descriptions of the object's distinctive flight
characteristics, possibly equated with documented observations
of birds, I asked for opinions based on his comments.

These were some of the full responses, previously unpublished, which I
subsequently mentioned extracts from:

Subject: Re: They Came From Outer Space - Or Did They?

James Easton writes, re UFO's:

>On 24 June, 1947, Kenneth Arnold, a successful salesman and
>experienced search and rescue pilot, took off in his small plane from
>Chehalis, Washington en route to Yakima. Close to Mineral, Washington
>and about 25 miles from Mount Rainier, he noticed a formation of 9
>unusual objects flying from north to south.

<snip>

>"They didn't fly like any aircraft I had ever seen before...The
>elevation of the first craft was greater than that of the last. They
>flew in a definite formation but erratically. ...Or maybe it would be
best to describe their flight characteristics as very similar to a
formation of geese,

<snip>

>At the time I did not get the impression that the flashes were emitted
>by them, but rather that it was the sun's reflection from the extremely
>highly polished surface of their wings".

<snip>

>Arnold dismissed geese as an explanation due to the reflective nature
>of the objects and his estimate of their speed and distance.

Arthur C. Clarke recounts in one of his 1960's nonfiction books
(Profiles of the Future'?) a similar sighting of 'skipping
saucers' off the coast of Sri Lanka that (as he knew they would)
turned out to be gulls with sunlight reflecting off the water
onto their underwings where it was alternatively visible and
invisible in a regular pulsating pattern.

This isn't an uncommon sight, either, though it usually requires
a particular set of conditions. First, calm water; second, low
sunrise or sunset angle to the light; third, a slightly
distorting horizon heat- haze sometimes enhances the illusion
but it's not mandatory; fourth, the birds, usually gulls, moving
along the horizon need to be flying just off the water and to be
sufficiently far off that the observer can't make out any
features on them including shape. Seen it a ton of times. and I
expect one could see it at virtually every seaside in the world
where distant gulls fly over brightly-lit water.

So, on to Mr. Arnold's description that started this whole damn
thing about UFOs (part of my misspent youth was spending a few
thousand hours as an amateur astronomer and I never got to see
even one UFO that really baffled me, he grumbled). Given the
location, 25 mi off Mt Rainier's glacial sides, ice would be a
great substitute reflector and would easily blast enough
sunlight back up onto birds' underwings to make them reflect
very brightly. Just look at the excruciating whiteness of the
underwings of an adult white-headed gull such as a Herring or
Glaucous- winged flying over snow on a sunny winter day.

Given the time of year, and that, if Arnold *were* looking at
birds whether or not he knew it, what would they likely be?
Canada Geese come to mind immediately, most other large
waterfowl being in the North, and he mentions geese as a
possibility. But what would Canada geese be doing high up over
Mt Rainier in late June? Heading for a molting lake, probably.
Could they reflect that much light? Certainly, particularly if
over ice. How about gulls? Well, which gulls are likely then?
It's a little ways inland, so Glaucous-winged Gull isn't likely,
but California Gull would be.

The formation's possible: gulls may fly in ragged 'V's, but they
don't necessarily maintain uniformity in the vertical as they
might in the horizontal, and so gulls might fly in the formation
Arnold describes.

There's another possible candidate species in the area at that
time of year (sporadically) whose color, size, flight profile
and proclivity for formation flight at sometimes quite high
altitude would even more produce *every* detail of the
phenomenon which Arnold observed: a flock of non- or
failed-breeder southbound White Pelicans. They'd have been large
enough to visible for a good distance, they fly in formation,
and if the light were reflecting just right off a large nearby
glaciated peak, their comparatively vast white underwing area
would reflect a *ton* of light in exactly the pattern described
by Arnold.

I'd submit that the hypothesis of a small southbound flock of
failed- or non-breeder American White Pelicans observed by
someone unfamiliar with underwing reflectivity would provide the
same phenomena and be at least as good an alternative
possibility than seeing artifacts from another planet.

Darn it.

>Appreciating this is perhaps something of an unusual query to the
>list

And a pleasure to think about. Lots of fun. Thanks, James!

Michael Price
Vancouver BC Canada
[End]


Oh no!  Another myth debunked.  But, you've just gotta believe.

In a message dated 97-11-20 07: Michael Price writes:

<< There's another possible candidate species in the area at
that time of year (sporadically) whose color, size, flight
profile and proclivity for formation flight at sometimes quite
high altitude would even more produce *every* detail of the
phenomenon which Arnold observed: a flock of non- or
failed-breeder southbound White Pelicans. >>

Yikes Michael!  Are we of like minds or what?!  When I first
read the original post from James Easton, White Pelicans was the
first thing that came to mind as I was reflecting back on an
ultra-high flying southbound formation I saw a few years ago
over the Barancas in western Durango, Mexico, east of Mazatlan.
It was a fluke that I detected them at all by unaided eye.  Even
in the bins, I was perplexed about what they were for awhile, at
first not even sure they were birds.  Strange lighting and angle
it was.

I spend more time than just about anyone out exposed and looking
at the sky. Much to my dismay, I've yet to see anything that
couldn't be explained.  I'm taking it personal by now, and am
convinced that I've been singled out and left out. :-/

Richard Rowlett Seattle/Bellevue, WA USA [End]


Michael, my first thought when I started reading your analysis
was white pelican.  Several years ago, when training a good
birder in the finer details of splitting migrating hawks into
species, age, etc at long distances at the beginning of the fall
migration season (i.e. training him to run our count), we saw
distant white "blurps" fading in and out of visibility many
miles north.  This was at the Goshutes, i.e. on the Utah/Nevada
border.  It was near sunset.  It was obvious that the sun was
reflecting on their underwings.  They'd disappear momentarily
and then reappear in sequence.  They were flying east-to-west
and we first spotted them somewhat to the northeast.  I pegged
them as white pelicans almost immediately, as the whole cadence
of the thing matched the way white pelicans will soar in line
(in this case - they'll also "V" up), and rather than flap all
at once, often will each begin to flap as each reaches the
position where the previous bird began to flap.  Same with
turning, etc.  Of course, they'll also do this in more of a
synchronized formation, too, but I'm sure you've all seen white
pelicans flap and glide in the kind of pattern I'm describing.

I couldn't think of any bird that would show such a cadence and
literally twinkle white while switching from soaring to
flapping.

As they continued heading west, of course the northerly
component of their distance from us diminished (i.e. they got
closer :) and the squat battleship like profile of the pelicans
were noticeable.

It was very cool, actually.  Among other things, the trainee
started believing me when I told him a distant accipiter was a
sharpie, not a Coop (or vice-versa).

>I'd submit that the hypothesis of a small southbound flock of failed-
>or non-breeder American White Pelicans observed by someone unfamiliar
>with underwing reflectivity would provide the same phenomena and be at
>least as good an alternative possibility than seeing artefacts from
>another planet.

Having spent a lot of time watching pelicans, I'm convinced they
*are* artefacts from another planet :)

Don Baccus, Portland OR [End]


As another contributor commented, "We'll never know, but it's
fun to speculate".

Well, that depends.

In truth, on this mailing list it actually isn't fun at all to
speculate about anything which even remotely challenges
fundamentalist beliefs.

Paraphrasing Billy Connolly, "It's about as welcome as a fart in
a spacesuit".


It was, of course, Martin Kottmeyer who first suggested that
Kenneth Arnold may have been deceived by, if not geese - "I, at
first, thought they were geese because it flew like geese" -
then perhaps swans.

Martin has reportedly commented:

"James Easton's thought that pelicans might be a better guess
than swans sounds plausible to me at first blush and no
objections come to mind. I guessed swans primarily on the points
that I knew they flew high enough and were larger, whiter,
faster, and rarer than geese. If pelicans match the flight
characteristics better as claimed - cool, I like it.

Give Easton my appreciation for offering the alternative".


Arnold, of course, described the objects flight characteristics,
not their shape, as being reminiscent of a saucer skipping
across water, hence 'flying saucers'.

That so many people then claimed to have seen 'flying saucer'
shaped objects, is, or should be, somewhat disconcerting.


One also notes Arnold's apparent later sighting of some
twenty-five brass-coloured objects when he stated "I was a
little bit shocked and excited when I realized they had the same
flight characteristics of the large objects I had observed on
June 24.. I know they were not ducks because ducks don't fly
that fast."


There were further unpublished opinions I obtained from some of
the world's experts on these birds and they agreed that Arnold's
flight descriptions were remarkably consistent with the bird's
distinctive 'jizz', or signature.

I don't know, they're the experts and I hadn't actually made
that much of it at the time, keeping discussions to this list.


Anyhow, whatever the explanation, I'm grateful you have reminded
me of the knowledgeable ornithologists' observations and what an
interesting news story it is.

I'll now release details to the media and they may find it a
newsworthy item.


Regrettably, except for a couple of other contributions, I'm
unsubscribing from this mailing list and any further wisdom from
Mr Rude-iak will, regrettably, be oblivious.

Spared of perceived 'slippery Eastonian arguments' you can now
concentrate endeavours on all the other snake-oil and 'clean up'
ufology.



James.
E-mail: pulsar@compuserve.com


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