From: Lloyd Bayliss <lloyd@POWER-AGE.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:16:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:14:08 -0500
Subject: {100} Part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network
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U K / / // ___/ / / / March 1999
/ / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 Issue 100
--- (_____//__/ (_____/------------------------------------------
The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 58 countries.
This issue comes in 4 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be
reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g. Repost {100} part 1, part 2 etc.
In this issue:
Editorial
---------
Well who'd have thought it, we've made it to the 100th Issue!
Some exciting prospects in store for the uk.ufo.nw
Our #UFO channel on IRC explained
Special celebratory uk.ufo.nw crossword competition
IRC Guest Log Special!
----------------------
A *very* special IRC guest log section this month, to help celebrate
our 100th issue!
United Kingdom News
-------------------
[UK 1] ET call Earth
[UK 2] For ETs Space Travel Would be an Alien Concept
[UK 3] Sonic Boom is Super Mystery
[UK 4] Space Buffs To Recreate Mars In Canadian Wasteland
[UK 5] Expert says Ireland is newest hotspot for alien spaceships
[UK 6] Okay Zal, you can park your flying saucer here
[UK 7] A Radar Anomaly
[UK 8] Alien Life Forms may be inside Earth
[UK 9] 'Space link' role for Menwith
[UK 10] Odd Sighting in Dorset
[UK 11] UFO sightings 'extraordinary'
[UK 12] UFO Sighting !
World News
----------
[W 1] Astronomers record gamma ray light
[W 2] Latest search for life is Charon, tiny moon orbiting Pluto
[W 3] Marree Man Outline Mystery Deepens
[W 4] Mrs. Clinton, Kids Dream of Mars
And Finally!
------------
Dave's car insurance is up - but he's a naturally suspicious fellow...
Statement, Subscription Information and Stuff
---------------------------------------------
How, where, and maybe even why, to find us - and what to do when you
get there :)
----------===============******************===============----------
Editorial
---------
Hi! It's me, Lloydy, that's been entrusted with putting this special
100th issue together for you, so any complaints or disagreements you
may have, be sure to mail them to anyone but me :) Right, on with
the show...
Wow, Issue 100? That can't be right, surely!
Well, here we are, a long way down the road from where our good
leader Dave Somen started this here E-zine (or mailing list as it was
then known!) all those years ago. The United Kingdom UFO Mailing List
was born in early 1995 and was orginally setup to cover UFO and related
stories from in and around Great Britain. Several things have changed
since those early days, the name changed to the UK UFO Network in 1996,
a New York based List Server is now used to distribute the E-zine,
taking at least some of the strain off poor old Dave, we now have a
dedicated UFO channel on the Chatnet server on IRC (more of which
below), and last but by absolutely no means least, our membership has
grown to well over 1700 subscribers from all corners of the world - 58
countries at the last count to be exact!
Things have certainly moved on around here, over the past couple of
years especially. We have had some of the most respected and well
known people from the UFO world grace us with their presence as
guests on our IRC channel, and Dave, Crow / Raine and Nessus (among
many others) work relentlessly to secure future apearances by
celebrities from all walks of the UFO field.
The UK UFO NW is though, above all else, a vehicle for the
distribution of UFO related news stories from around the world.
This vehicle would undoubtedly stall and come to a grinding halt
if it weren't for you, our subscribers and readers, sending in
reports from around the globe. For this, the whole team here at the
UK UFO NW thank you. Without you, this E-zine and all of it's
related goodies could not survive. Thank you!
---
As the uk.ufo.nw continues to evolve, many opportunities arise,
some of which seem a little too good to be true, others that may justify
a closer look, and still others that look downright dodgy! Every now
and then though, something comes along that, in all honesty, seem to
fulfill all three categories!
A little while ago, the uk.ufo.nw was contacted by a gentleman, that
shall remain nameless for the time being, offering among other things,
full access to a well equipped research laboratory and his services,
namely those of a highly qualified scientist. The idea behind this
would be to test various samples, metalic or otherwise, supposedly
originating from downed UFOs or even so called 'alien implants'.
As you can imagine, this was greeted with more than a little sceptisism
by the uk.ufo.nw team at first. However, after further talks with the
gentleman concerned, the labs, the qualifications and not least the
offer, stands, at least for now, firm.
The uk.ufo.nw will keep you posted with further developments...
---
It has come to our attention of late, that some visitors to our #UFO
channel on IRC have been voicing unsavoury opinions about getting
ignored after joining the channel. Dave has issued a statement to
the groups and individuals concerned, so I'll let him explain...
===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===
UK UFO NETWORK STATEMENT
It has come to our notice through postings in the news groups and
mail sent directly to us that a few people are getting annoyed after
joining our UFO IRC channel at various times of the night and day.
It appears that they have tried communicating/talking with people on
the channel only to be met with silence or some strange comments.
I think that I have an answer to this.
In order to keep the channel open 24 hours a day 7 days a week it is
necessary for a number of small programs called 'bots' to appear on
the channel.
To those not in the know they appear to be normal visitors to the
channel, but of course they aren't. They have a very very weak
artificial intelligence which is why you may get a strange response
if you talk to them. It can be quite amusing at times.
They go by the names of:
K9
Alf
Alien
Another reason you may not get an immediate response from someone on
the channel is that they might be doing something else i.e. surfing
the web etc etc and not immediately see you on channel.
I can assure you that you will be made most welcome at any time, and
especially at our meetings every Saturday starting at 11pm UK time.
I hope that this answers any of the queries you may have had.
===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===
Thankyou Dave, for clearing that up so succinctly.
While on the subject of IRC, most of the time, the channel is open
for anyone to speak to anyone else. On some occasions though, mainly
when we have special guests appearing, the main #UFO channel becomes
moderated. This means that only certain operators or moderators
have a voice on the channel. This ensures that the guest is not
bombarded with questions and not left alone long enough to answer
anything in particular. If you find this is the case, you will normally
find another channel called #UFO2 in operation. Typing /join #UFO2
will open up a seperate window where you can discuss the evening's guest
(or plot and scheme particularly nasty questions!)
When the #UFO channel is being moderated, the correct way to ask a
question of the guest is to /msg the moderator with your question. In
other words, to ask Tim Good if he has ever had an encounter with a
UFO, you would do this :-
/msg raine Mr Good, have you ever had an encounter with a UFO?
This is placed onto the moderator's screen (in this case Raine's),
who then places the question in the queue ready to ask the guest.
The uk.ufo.nw is working on a small guide to using our IRC channel. You
will be able to request this guide by email or download it from the
usual address as soon as it's ready.
---
Finally, (at last I hear you cry!), to celebrate our 100th issue, we
have a special crossword competition, open only to legitimate
subscribers. The winner will win a small (but perfectly formed!) token
of our appreciation.
To enter the competition, you will need to visit the uk.ufo.nw Web site
at
http://www.holodeck.demon.co.uk/
and follow the 'Competitiion' link. This will take you to a page that
will explain all. Alternatavely, you can mail us for an email version
of the crossword and the rules. Send an email to
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk
and put COMPETITION as the subject line.
When you send in your answers, make sure you include your email address,
full name and location in the world. Only people that are on the
subscription list will qualify for a prize - so make sure you're
subscribed!
Ok, on with the show...
IRC Guest Log Special
---------------------
A special IRC treat for you this issue. Two - yes two! - very
special guest logs for your enjoyment. The first guest is
Tim Mathews, author of "UFO Revelation" and a controversial figure
in the UFO research world. Tim appeared on channel on 20 February.
The second guest needs very little or no introduction. To most
people living in the UK, Tim Good is one of the most well known and
well respected UFO researchers around, and many many people around
the World would be very happy to agree. In a special IRC guest
session, Mr Good kindly agreed to answer our questions on Tuesday
23 February. Tim enjoyed the meeting so much, that he has agreed to
a return visit some time in the future.
Read and enjoy, you lucky, lucky people!
---
Tim Matthews
Special guest on UK.UFO.NW - IRC - #UFO channel
The below text is a log of the United Kingdom UFO Network -IRC-
(internet relay chat) meeting held on Saturday 20th February 1999.
Tim Matthews kindly gave up a few hours of his time to answer
questions from visitors to our dedicated UFO channel.
Names within the < > symbols e.g. <Nesssus> are the nick names of
the person/s asking the questions/s. Where you see <T_Matthew> is
the start of Tim Matthews reply.
Credits:
Our thanks to Sean Jones for setting up the meeting with Tim. Our
thanks to Dave Baker for also mentioning us to Tim. Our thanks to
Sean Jones for moderating the meeting. Our thanks to Phil Light for
sorting out the log. Our thanks also to the many, many people who
joined the channel.
Short - BIOGRAPHY -
Tim Matthews research has been delving into this grey area where some
Nazi war criminal's got off prosecution as long as they helped the
American government to develope these low aspect ratio aircraft with
amazing capabilities.
Tim Matthews book and his talk's are all about the history behind
this conspiracy and the ongoing cover-up of exactly what happened
around this era which was the era of the birth of "Modern Ufology".
During the second world war the Nazi's developed low aspect ratio
aircraft that where frequently mis-identified as UFO's. After the
war several of the Nazi scientist's who where developing these
aircraft where smuggled out of Germany and into the USA. (Operation
Paperclip) In the USA, around Whitesands and Alamogordo army airforce
bases they continued to develope these low aspect ratio aircraft that
looked to all intense and purposes like "flying saucers"
Tim if you would like to introduce yuorself and when you are ready I
will fire away with the questions. Please put TM and the end of your
answers so I know when to give you the next question
<T_Matthew> Ok, Thanks. Well, alot of people will have heard about my
research into Man-Made UFOs and this is now supported through my book
entitled "UFO Revelation" - out NOW!
<CR0W> Tim can you give us your views on the Shefield Incident please?
<T_Matthew> Yes, sure. Having done my own investigation into this, and
checking out the facts about the Police logs I think that there was an
incident where RAF jets broek the sound barrier. No "crash retrieval"
though...
<grumps> What does Tim Matthews think of Bill Cooper?
<T_Matthew> Do we mean William Cooper the darkside conspiracist? If so,
not much. He was recently holed up, in true militia style, somewhere in
the boondocks and I cannot take anything he says very seriously. He has
had an impact on modern Ufological thinking though, that's for sure and
he shares common ground with people like John Lear.
<RavNmaD> Tim whats your opinion of genuine researchers like Matt
Williams pulling hoaxes
<T_Matthew> I know Matthew quite well, he even videod my wedding (!).
I think that he was hoaxing and got caught out. Whether he was in fact
"conducting an experiment" as anyone's guess. Crop circles really
exercise the emotions although I've yet to see any evidence to suggest
that the complicated deigns are more than a clever human art form....
<CR0W> Tim you have a slightly dubious background, some think you are
possibly a gov agent in some way. What say you to this?
<T_Matthew> I knew I.d get asked this. No, I'm not an "agent" of any
sort, not even for the local Littlewoods Pools collection team. People
only want to believe it because it might, in their eyes, discredit the
very effective and detailed research I've undertaken into MMUFOs....
<Tedric> tim, what unexplain ufo sightings do you think really are
UFO'S?
<T_Matthew> Hmmm. I'm not sure there are any really "unexplained" cases
as such. There are intriguing ones but the more one looks for answers -
the role of the researcher - the more one finds sensible solutions. My
research is helping to explain cases like Muroc Field (1947) and
McMinnville and only yesterday I learned that farmer Paul Trent believed
that he'd photographed a secret military aircraft in 1950 - not an
Adamskiite saucer!
<Raine> What got you interested in the whole UFO phenomena and what
moved you so much that you feel that you have to give talks about the
subject?
<T_Matthew> Well, my wife Lynda took me along to a Graham Birdsall
talk in Burnley in March 1995 and we met some people and started a
group. Simple really. I think that my research, for what it's worth,
adds a sense of balance and perhaps a new and factual perspective to
the UFO debate - at least I hope so!
<CR0W> Tim I would like to know your thoughts on the Bentwaters Case,
especially concerning Jim Peniston who claims he actually touched a
pyramid type craft.
<T_Matthew> Yes! This has been a source of some debate within the
ranks of the reformed IUN recently. I was interested to learn that
Steuart Campbell had matched the flashing of the lighthouse with the
flashes on the "Halt Tape". Not a British Roswell and one of the men
sent out to investigate the lights said that there was NO craft - just
lights. Very difficult.
<psientist> if these craft were developed by the nazis, why were they
not used in combat in the second world war?
<T_Matthew> They developed primitive discs - and some radical ideas
for later use - in response to the allied aerial threat. There is no
credible evidence for high-performance Nazi discs although they were
tested at Prague-Kbely airfield from late 1943 onwards. Of course
there were V2s and jet-powered Me262s, not to mention other odd
prototypes captured by the allies...
<RavNmaD> Tim, is your book available through amazon.com?
<T_Matthew> I hope so. Hoepfully you'll order it. The US distributor
is Sterling, New York. Should be on "all good bookshops" by next week.
<fora> has he ever seen an ufo?
<T_Matthew> Have I? Yes, in a manner of speaking. An odd light over
Morecambe Bay and an FT at Warton British Aerospace on the Fylde
coast.
<CR0W> Tim do you know of any cases in the UK where actual alien
material has been recoverd. Do you know of anything that has been
tested in the UK, anything similar to Derrel Simms implants?
<T_Matthew> No. There is a desperate need for a "British Roswell"
although none exists. Leir and Sims are charlatans. Leir is a foot
doctor, that's all. I do not believe that the few anomalous objects are
alien implants. Good science fiction though isn't it....?
<mematt> how does tim think themanmade ufo's fly
<T_Matthew> How do they fly? Not quite sure what you mean but the
early discs were jets, using reheat/afterburners whereas as these days
there is some (a little) evidence to suggest that much more radical
forms of propulsion are under test. Hope that's what you're after.
<SickBoy> Hi Tim. Do you think that ETs have actually visited the
Earth? And if so why :-)
<T_Matthew> No. I certainyl haven't ruled out the possibility of ET
life out there. In fact it's likely. But ETs in discs or triangles?
No way.
<mematt> allso what does he time of so called alien abduction
<T_Matthew> Abduction - an emotive word that barely describes and helps
us understand the compelxity of the close encounter experience. Most
abductions emerge under hypnosis and are pushed by a frankly
ill-equipped and largely ill-trained group of believers in the US
although we have a few regressionists here in the UK. I think that
these experiences are internally generated and not 'alien' related.
<stu7> ...this might seem silly...but has the govt come forward
ever...inviting ufologists to look at anything they might be ready
to release ? :)
<T_Matthew> Hmmm. I know that the late Ken Philips passed case files
on to the govt here. The intelligence agencies were of course
responsible for pushing many an ET myth in the late 70s and early
1980s via Richard Doty and his meetings with Howe and Moore.
<RavNmaD> Tim, considering your opinion of Cooper, what's your opinion
of Lear? and along with that the claims of Lazar?
<T_Matthew> Lear was indeed an excellent pilot but what most people
don't know, and this is covered in my book "UFO Revelation" is that
Lears' dad was involved in the early expts into electrogravitics
systems. One report mentioned in my book and written by the Gravity
Research Group of Knoghtsbridge, London, noted that a disc would be the
most effective craft for use with such radical propulsion systems...
Lazar is not lying about everything. I discovered,
<Max-Burns> Tim, Regarding the sheffield incident can you give us a
reasonable reason why the planes that were alleged to have been
involved in the low level covert exercise which should have been on
the ground at 21.07 were still in the air 50 mins later than booked
and if they were the same planes from the exercise why they will not
admit to causing the sonic booms? would you agree that some black
budget top secret terrestrial craft may have been involved
<T_Matthew> As to Sheffield I think that the MOD was less than
forthcomind and this didn't help matters. Nevertheless, the only
report of a triangle was a misidentification of a passenger airliner
and this is established to my satisfaction.
<mematt> does tim think they are manmade and if so how can they fly so
fast with out hurting the people inside ?
<T_Matthew> Easy really. Speeds have nothing to do with g forces. Even
the g forces in the space shuttle are well within tolerated limits. By
teaching pilots special breathin ex.s and by lying them in a prone
position, as described in some previously TS rated disc documents high
'g' turns are rather less problematic.
<SickBoy> UFOs are often reported to be moving in one direction and
almost instantaneously change direction, do you think MMUFOs have this
capability?
<T_Matthew> Possibly although quite often such reports are not
especially good! We must be very careful not to confuse reports of
anomalous lights with supposed "craft". Remember that Hessdalen showed
that such maneuvers were often reported via a natural source.
<RavNmaD> Tim, do you think that if Lazar's claims are sincere that
they are an extension of the Nazi scientists?
<T_Matthew> It occurs to me that the GRG report noted above describes
an electrogravitics system as one providing 'sharp-edgeded changes of
motion typical in space' with an MM disc.
<fora> whats their(Ufo's) target to come here?
<T_Matthew> As to the Lazar-nazi link. This may be tenuous because much
of the Lazar stuff is false, for instance his claimed qualifications.
There were only a handful of Germans working on discs - the best known
was Dr. Richard Miethe. All information on him remains classified by
the USAF even though we know he worked for them in the postwar and on
Project Y at Wright-Patt in liaison with AVRO-Canada..
<SickBoy> What do you make of Tim Good's newest book 'Alien Bases'? Has
he flipped?
<T_Matthew> Tim Good is a very nice guy, and like me a classical
musician. Nevertheless, his "Alien Base" ws very disappointing esp.
through the promotion on the well-known fake Villa photos. In addition,
there is NO credible evidence that there are any 'alien bases' - just
deep undergroun bases whihc make a great deal of military sense.
<mematt> allso what about the socalled bogys in space
<T_Matthew> The what? Sean_Jbogeys? ice crystals?
<T_Matthew> Oh! Dohh! I think that Kasher is wrong. Re; STS-48. Some
facts. Thunder storm below, rocket boosters disturbing localised area,
all kinds of debris and an out-of-focus camera. Not often mentioned in
the UFO believer camp.
<mematt> tim if these are all "earth" ufo's y the cover up and the
missinformati,on by the us gov?
<T_Matthew> Once you start to lie it's all downhill from there. Many
answers - including the helping hand of the UFO/flying saucer community
penetrated by the CIA in the early 1950s...The Cold War saw a situation
where Soviet discs routinely attempted to penetarte the US DEW (Distant
Early Warning) radar systems. This led to an 'undeclared disc war'
between them both and there were many aircraft whose existence was
directly related to the CW and as yet rem
<EbE> Could you please give me some more information on IUN?
<T_Matthew> Yes! Independent UFO Network is going to replace BUFORA as
the most active UFO research group in the UK and is being relaunched at
our special LUFOS/IUN event in Southport next weekend featuring top
speakers. We feel that in general UFOs are not of alien origin and that
the main sources for sightings are earthlights and secret military
aircraft. There are also cases where an internal trigger leads to
extraordinary experiences and we hope to exa
<Sean_J> Tim please repost the last of that answer
<T_Matthew> Which bit? The extraordinary human experiences are to some
extent close encounters, NDEs and OOBEs whihc are closely related we
suspect. Only by encouraging scientists to help us can we acheive the
necessary breakthroughs in understanding.
<Raine? How long ago did you start your group and how long did it take
you to discover that UFO sightings are military craft? Or was that your
thoughts on the subject in the first place?
<T_Matthew> What I think and what Lancashire UFO Society members think
is not the same thing! Coming from an RAF family I knew that there were
various secret projects but not their UFO links or their variety. The
first reports of FTs under escort by RAF Tornados gave them game away
a little!! Initially I was an unthinking believer who naively felt that
Roswell (for instance) must be right because all the witnesses seemed
to agree on the important points.
<mematt> who is makeing these craft then ?
<T_Matthew> Which ones??!! Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Teledyne-Ryan,
British Aerospace, LTV, Northrop, McDonnell-Douglas. In the past, Bell,
Vought and AVRO.
<SickBoy> You mentioned Stuart Campbell, what do you think of his
mirage hypothesis?
<T_Matthew> Occasionally useful, mainly not. Typical example of one
shoe fitting all...>TM.
<Ariella> What is the most intriqueing case you have researched?
<T_Matthew> Hmmmmm. A 1947 one featured in Hynek's UFO Report. Date
23rd November 1957. Location, middle on nowhere, Nevada. USAF Officer
sees Flying Discs. Near Papoose Lake and Groom Lake.
<Tedric> If a flying saucer landed on the Whitehouse lawn would you
beleive alines are visiting us then?
<T_Matthew> It would depend who got out!!! Even if ET landed tomorrow
it wouldn't alter the fact that the US govt had all the discs from the
start.
<zelplatog> Does Tim beleive the Governments are in contact with
aliens, if so which ones and for what purpose?
<T_Matthew> Certainly not!
<psientist? can I ask what professional 'qualifications, expertise and
technical background' you bring to bear on your subject area?
<T_Matthew> Yes. Apart from having an honours degree from Lancaster
University I have made it my business to ask knowledgeable friends and
family (two RAF Officers, Grandad and Dad) as well as aviation experts
like Bill Rose - who is part of my study group.
<SickBoy> What is an electrogravitics system?
<T_Matthew> Good question and as I note in "UFO Revelation" perhaps
it's too difficult even for scientists!! LoL..A system using an
electrical force experimented upon by TT Brown in the late 1920s with
Paul Biefeld. Checkmout the Bielfeld-Brown effect!!
<mematt> does tim think people can travel at 25,000 mh in a craft and
if so how ?
<T_Matthew> No and there's no credible evidence to suggest that any
sighting of a structured craft relates to such speeds. I fear that UFO
mythology is creeping in here!!
<zelplatog> what is Tims take on the "foo figher" reports from WWII
pilots?
<T_Matthew> A mixed bag on several things including perhaps St. Elmos
Fire, reports from over-anxious crewmen and pilots and possibly a
German device. The latter is not provable even though, if you look,
you find that FFs tended to ascend vertically from Axis held territory.
Only a few reports actually exist and initially these noted the
existence of a new German anti-aircraft device.
<putlog> Tim,what are your thoughts on the shuttle crews reporting
seeing ufos
<T_Matthew> No idea! Could be almost anything if you think about it.
Big problem with the term 'UFO' I think. What do they mean? What do we
mean?
<mematt> what about the disc on the moon ?
<T_Matthew> What - surely you're not serious!!
-[continued in part 2]-
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