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From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 99 18:44:18 PDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 02:46:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos


 >Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:57:04 -0400
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos

 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Bruce Maccabee and Gulf Breeze Photos
 >>Date: Wed, 29 Sep 99 22:30:23 PDT


 >>What does Mr. Young mean by "private investigators"? Private
 >>detectives?  Does he think that witnesses ought to be treated as
 >>potential criminals?  I guess so, since he tells us that
 >>"polygraph tests" -- judged virtually useless by an army of
 >>critics in criminology and science -- are "a major part of
 >>investigations."  Along the way he perpetuates the tired and
 >>mindless slander  that ufologists are in it for the money.

 >It seems as if you are now accusing me of perpetuating “tired
 >and mindless slander.” Gosh! I wonder why this is the case,
 >especially since I have not previously entered the Gulf Breeze
 >discussions. Wasn’t my message simply a brief commentary on your
 >previous vitriolic approach to those who you are in dissent
 >with?

Nope.  You conveniently failed to mention, as I pointed out to
you last time around (and as Brian Straight has also pointed out
to you), that I was responding to vile accusations against my
character -- accusations, moreover, that were hurled without a
shred of supporting evidence. Apparently, in these things, it's
the victim, not the perpetrator, who's the guilty party.  I'm
certainly glad you're not a cop.

 >I am quite humored how you go on to charge that “like the self-
 >righteous everywhere,” I [and fellow associates] want to “dish
 >it out without having to take it.”  Well, I don’t know what I
 >have dished out which I couldn’t take, except to illustrate an
 >overbearing and sordid level of discourse that you have mustered
 >out in the past few days. Recall that I sought to address
 >certain comments from Brian Straight regarding your alleged
 >“voice of reason” while in dispute, only instead, I find myself
 >cast as one who “demonstrates what happens when ufology is
 >treated as an excuse to short-circuit real debate by trashing
 >those with whom one disagrees.”

I stand by what I said, and I remain appalled at your defense of
the judge, jury, and executioner school of ufology.  Maybe it's
high time, guy, that you did some serious soul-searching.  My
contributions to ufology are out there for anybody to see.  What
are yours, besides to apologize for the most degraded sort of
discourse in this field, where people's good names are out there
to be trashed?  And when they defend themselves in richly
merited tones of outrage, why can you only hurl yet more
baseless charges against them?


 >Further, I find myself affiliated with “character assassins,”
 >accused of  “coming on as a judge, juror, and executioner,”
 >again, I stress, without ever having said a word about the
 >current discussions [except some past non-specific comments from
 >several months back in a separate thread where I possibly eluded
 >to a general skepticism of the Gulf Breeze affair], and am also
 >charged with being “baffled and outraged when my intended
 >victims complain about the unfairness of a trial” and am further
 >said to “show the bankruptcy of the prosecution's case.”

 >I am unimpressed with such juvenile vitriol.

Apparently, in your Kafkaesque world, the innocent are expected
meekly to plead guilty. If they insist on setting the record
straight and turning the tables on their accusers, that only
proves that somehow they were guilty in the first place.  I am
not impressed.

Juvenile vitriol, alas, is all we hear from you. What is this
strange obsession you have with character assassination?

Back in the '60s we used to say, "If you're not part of the
solution, you're part of the problem." You're part of the
problem, Mr. Young.

Jerry Clark