UFO UpDates Mailing List
From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 21:49:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:38:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Stewart & Friedman
>Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 21:34:15 -0400
>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
>Subject: Re: Stewart & Friedman
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:21:26 -0800
>>From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
>>Subject: Re: Stewart & Friedman
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
>Too bad that Ed Stewart and Bob Todd have conveniently forgotten
>that Robert Cutler worked at the White House. He was a special
>assistant to the President.
This is another ruse and deception that Friedman keeps
perpetrating on the UFO community. No one has "conveniently
forgotten" who Robert Cutler was, who he worked for and where he
worked at. It is simply not relevant. Robert Cutler was not
found in RG341, an Air Force record group. The alleged
Cutler-Twining memo was and it was the procedure of the Air
Force at the time (documented fact) to use document control
numbers on Top Secret documents that came under their control.
Where Robert Cutler had his morning cup of coffee is simply not
relevant, never was relevant, and never will be relevant.
>He was not at the DOD.
So what? What is the relevance? The document was allegedly found
by Moore-Shandera in RG 341 an Air Force record group, not in
the White House, not in the Library of Congress, not anywhere
but in an Air Force record group. That is what is relevant,
always has been relevant, and always will be relevant.
>Two of the TOP SECRET items (Pages B-4
>and B-5, in my autographed "Final Report on Operation Majestic
>12") were directly from Robert Cutler, Special Assistant to the
>President, to the Secretary of Defense and to General Twining.
Does your autograph make your report more legitimate?
>Both were found at the Library oif Congress Manuscript Division
>in the Twining papers and are therefore under the rules of the
>White House (The Originating Agency) and not the DOD.
So what? What does this have to do with the alleged
Cutler-Twining memo found in RG 341 and therefore under the
control of the DOD?
>I have consistently noted that the Cutler Twining Memo (from the
>White House office of Robert Cutler) was obviously planted in
>Box 189 of Entry 267 of RG 321.
That is RG 341, not RG 321. And it is obvious that it was
planted __after__ the dual review team went through their
classification procedures. If it had been found by the review
team, it would have gone through their declassification review
and since it was an NSC document that obviously did not belong
there, it would have been forwarded to the NSC for
declassification review since neither the Air Force nor the
Archives had such authority. There is nothing to indicate the
Air Force/Archives review team ever saw the document during
their review declassification of RG 341. Moore-Shandera were the
first to view RG 341 after the review teams finished their job
where all of a sudden here pops up the Cutler-Twining memo. Gee,
Mr. Archives person, look what I found! Hello? Anybody home?
>The originating agency establishes the Security markings. Not
>the receiving agency.
Excuse me. What does the original security determination have to
do with ensuing control procedures by the receiving agencies?
Nothing, and if Stanton Friedman had any kind of knowledge about
security procedures he would understand the difference. There is
no dispute that the alleged originating agency/owner determines
the classification of the alleged document. But it is up to the
receiving agency to protect and control their received copy
according to the control procedures in place. It is obvious that
Stanton Friedman either doesn't know the difference or is
deliberately attempting a deception by introducing a ruse in
desperation. Either way, it displays the low level of Stanton
Freidman's alleged expertise on such matters.
>I repeat Cutler worked in the Executive Branch of the government
>at the White House.
And Mickey Mouse worked at Disneyland. So what? Neither statement is of
relevance. The memo was allegedly
found by your co-researchers in a record group belonging to the Air
Force, not the White House, not Disneyland. Hello? Anybody home?
>He issued at least 2 top secret items which wound up in the
>files of General Twining. Neither has a TS Control number.. As a
>matter of fact when they were first discovered neither had been
>stamped declassified, though that box had been released .. as
>happens occasionally.
Conveniently, Stanton Friedman neglects to mention that they
were _not_ found in RG 341 and therefore not relevant to this
discussion. By the way, as point of reference, the research team
of Moore-Shandera-Freidman are on record going through the
papers/schedule of General Twining as early as 1980, four years
before the alleged appearance of the MJ-12 documents and seven
years before their revelation to the rest of the UFO community.
Consequently, any claims by Friedman that the MJ-12 papers
presented "new" information related to Twining is completely
false since the Twining papers were declassified when the
research team of Moore-Shandera-Freidman went through them in
1980.
>There was quite a reaction from a staff person when at my
>instruction she obtained them from the box (Maybe #120), brought
>them into her office for some Japanese cameramen, and suddenly
>realized they still said TOP SECRET. She immediately grabbed a
>declassified stamp and applied it several times to each.
So what? Why introduce a distraction that has nothing to do with
the Cutler-Twining memo?
>These two clearly establish that it was the policy of Robert
>Cutler at the White House _not_ to use (at least some of the
>time) a TS Control number, Ed Stewart and Bob Todd
>notwithstanding and despite their expertise in such matters.
What does it have to do with a document under the control of the
Department of Defense? That is the issue. Always has been the
issue. The answer is _nothing_.
>Though as I recall Todd's expertise is of the armchair variety
>never having been at an archive.
You don't know that. Then again, you have maintained over and
over again that entering archives makes one an expert. Your
writings and posturing on security classifications have
demonstrated that you have no expertise on such matters. By
inference, visiting archives is no guarantee of an education on
such matters. Obviously, having visited multiple archives has
not helped you, or helped you gain any relevant knowledge.
>Case closed.
It has been closed for almost a decade now to the rest of the
world. Where have you been?
>The absence of a TS control number on the Cutler Twining memo,
>and the Truman Forrestal Memo and the EBD (Recall that Truman
>also was at the White House and Hillenkoetter when he was DCI
>was part of the Executive Branch _not_ the DOD) does _not_
>establish these items as frauds.
You are the only one that has interpreted my comments to say
that. I have always maintained that it indicates either a
breach of security or that the documents were bogus. What part
of _either or_ are you unable to understand. Friedman wants the
world to believe on one hand that MJ-12 existed and was the most
secret of all programs, yet the documents involved used no known
security control procedures in protecting the alleged secret
even though the alleged members were all knowledgeable and
versed on proper security procedures. Hello? Anybody home?
Ed Stewart
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Stewart ufoindex@jps.net|So Man, who here seems principal alone,
There Is Something |Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown.
Going On! ,>'?'<, |Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal,
Salvador Freixedo ( O O ) |'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole.
----------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -----
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