From: ac220@freenet.carleton.ca (Morley Roberts) Subject: Klass at Carleton 30/9/95 [1] Reply-To: ac220@freenet.carleton.ca Status: RO Philip Klass Lecture Carleton University 30 Sept. 1995 Prepared by CM Roberts The Carleton U. Chapter of IEEE organized this lecture; held at Alumni Theatre B in Southam Hall, Ottawa. There was a very brief introduction and Mr. Klass began almost immediately. I will try to relate the main points made by Mr. Klass. I only noted comments of interest; there was additional comment considered to be generally known and in the public domain. This is somewhat subjective in nature; I will put [my comments in square brackets]. I will put a "Q" for questions from the audience and a "K" for Klass's answers. No Q or K indicates Klass's comments. I cannot provide direct quotes as I am only working from a few notes and memory. I hope that this is of some use or interest. 1. UFO's cannot exist, - not one found, - not one ET found, - he said he would come back to this later. 2. Debunked fireball case, - error in judging distance, - ie. 1500 rather than 1 mile. 3. Debunked another case where - trained observers made errors in description. - No credible physical evidence. 4. Kroll had physicists and other scientists on team and had no positive sightings. 5. Gulf Breeze. - Had a very unappealing photo of Ed Walters. - Ed's Polaroid Camera was the very best one to use if you wanted to produce hoaxed pictures. - It is capable of double exposures. - He admitted that Ed's pictures were possibly real but not totally acceptable. - Phil said these photo's exhibited "bulb eye technique"; [which if I got it right means - the object of interest is not centred - that is the photo was taken in a closet and it was too dark to centre it normally.] - He says the photos were taken with a one second exposure. - Wife at stairs? with beam (of light). - Phil suggests that the light source should be above but the beam seems to become more powerful near the floor (bottom) suggesting that the light source is actually below. - Paper plate model found in Ed's old house when new owner is looking for a water pipe in the attic. - The [kind of crummy looking] paper plate model has a horizontal line on it; - which Phil suggests, only Ed previously knew as he said it was there even though you can't see it on the photographs. 6. Mr. Klass said he has had no personal sightings. 7. He doesn't believe that the government has recovered alien bodies, etc. 8. He stated there was an organization in England that was making all the crop circles. Besides an alien group would not have the budget to make all the crop circles. 9. Q. What about physical evidence such as in Siberia? K. Explained this away [I didn't understand his explanation, I think it had something to do with angles. ie. the (explosion) was the result of something hitting the earth at a shallow angle]. 10. Q. What about X-Files and other TV shows. K. He has only seen the show X-Files a few times and not recently. - He says, X-Files states it is fiction and - he thinks it is a good fiction show. - He has never seen any real "X" files. - He doesn't like Larry King. - He doesn't watch TV for entertainment. - He (Klass) has new secret documents that relate to the topic but - no one has used them. 11. He discredited T. Good - [with seemingly mostly innuendo.] - T. Good took George Adamski seriously. - T. Good will believe almost anything. - [He said he personally liked Good, and for that matter he stated he liked or was friends with many of the people he debunked.] 12. [As far as I could tell] - Klass said we have pictures of the far side of the moon - therefore we know there are no bases on the far side. 13. He has problems with NASA sightings. - Just because they are experts doesn't mean they don't make mistakes. - The same goes for machinery, equipment, instruments, etc.. - Besides with budget cuts ufo's/et's might be very good for the budget. 14. Betty and Barney Hill. - Their psychiatrist felt he had to reveal the truth but he died before it was accomplished. - There is some info from Dr. Simon is Klass's new book. - [Presumably he is the psychiatrist]. - Before the abductions, Betty and Barney shared the experiences; - after the abductions they were not shared. - Betty and Barney discussed dreams all the time. 15. Q. Lady in audience - related her story briefly - pain in right side, itchy knee. [She was asking for help, my interpretation.] K. Klass put her off, [nicely?] 16. Prize - no results.? - [I believe this referred to his offer? to pay for concrete/positive proof of the existence of ufo's/et's or to refund the price of any of his books if ufo's/et's are shown to be real.] 17. [Klass frequently asked questioners to speak up and repeat their questions. Probably should have been a microphone for questioners. Sometimes he did seem to ask when it seemed clear. At any rate it produced a comment from the audience - turn up your hearing aid.] 18. Q. Why secrecy; how do you explain that? K. Can't prove there is not secrecy. You can't prove a negative. ### From: ac220@freenet.carleton.ca (Morley Roberts) Subject: Klass at Carleton 30/9/95 [2] Reply-To: ac220@freenet.carleton.ca Status: RO 19. NSA - secrets. - Stanton Friedman claimed he had secrets, they revealed how US decodes and listens to USSR and China. - Tom Dooley? thought he had official ufo docs.?? 20. Q. Is it necessary to be humanly comprehensible to be scientifically approached? K. Methodology of Science. - If you take a PC, with evil spirits, to a repair shop ; they probably cannot fix it. - They, like scientists, will know and apply demonstrated principles if possible. - If known principles are not sufficient then work on a new theory begins. 21. Hoaxes are not illegal. Lets teach these aliens some new tricks. 22. von Davikour - makes money - has no morals. 23. Never heard of "COSMIC" security clearance. [Seemed to talk as though it existed.] 24. Sceptics UFO News - $15.00 25. Roswell [The photos of the debris are the weather balloon shots.] 26. Senior officers would not lie. 27. [One of the documents he displayed, that had the appearance of being printed on a LJ printer, had another section on it that was blacked out.] 28. No material has been recovered from an unexplained sighting. 29. The "Alien Autopsy" is in his mind beyond any doubt a hoax. He will have hard evidence to prove it a hoax and will publish it in the "Sceptics UFO News" by the end of October. 30. Meyer is a hoax - no doubt. 31. Sorocco was his first case. 32. Q. Why have 5 governments admitted UFO's are real. K. Would you believe all politicians? Q. Not politicians - military, scientists K. Would you say: I believe all humans when becoming uniformed become infallible? Explains that the radar display on an F-16 is computer generated, it has shown an aircraft at high speed at ground level flying vertically. [I think this is the period when a bit of a shouting match occurred. It seemed to flair unusually quickly; and then ended very quickly. Klass asked the gentleman to leave and he did as far as I know. I believe the individual was trying to get a response on the fact - in some sightings there are multiple witnesses, often including military, civilian, leaders, scientists, radar (ground and airborne), etc..] 32. Hypnosis is not a major solution. - It has a master slave relationship. - There is concern about using testimony obtained with hypnosis in courts. - The concern is even greater in science. 33. Budd Hopkins - more damage than help. 34. Q. Bermuda Triangle? K. Joking said he avoids the BT. Then said he regularly travels in it. [I think that is pretty much it. Klass had a few books and newsletters; I think he sold them all. Talked to some individuals and such. Theatre B was nearly full, maybe 250 people. Klass seemed pleasant enough, a little authoritarian, quite knowledgable, says he is not on the internet, doesn't watch much television, seemed to know of most cases or people who were mentioned but hadn't seen or read a lot of books or reports that were mentioned, when in doubt he goes for the most ordinary explanation even if it is a bit of a reach. I have the impression that he might actually contribute more to understanding the UFO, than a believer who is a bit too easy to get along with. He seemed to have more than one persona. He was a bit different when explaining an ordinary event which could account for an unknown sighting, ie. a meteorite breaking up (chunks coming off in succession) being reported as a metallic train like fo with lighted windows; than when he was discrediting Ed Walters for example. With Ed he used a non-flattering photograph, brought up things like a criminal record, to discredit the individual rather than really looking at the evidence presented. The "bulb eye technique" mentioned to be evident in Ed's photographs confused me. If you were shooting in the dark and exposing with a flash, it would seem to me that you would end up using a "bulls eye technique" to insure that you actually got what you wanted. This would centre the object and make it easier to keep the centre clear in your next exposure. This would be the simplest technique; so perhaps you would avoid it. However Ed's pictures are fairly well composed suggesting that you could actually see everything at once. Seeing everything at once would enable you to include identifiable background; but probably resulting in an off centre image. I suppose if you are hoaxing a photo you would consider all this and thus the composition wouldn't be significant. It does seem to me though that the composition suggests actual rather than hoaxed pictures. The brightness of a beam (of light?) would be brightest closest to the source - all things being equal. However I would think beams of light would be most visable where light is reflected or refracted out of the beam. In a typical house this reflection would be caused by dust; which would tend to accumulate near the floor. I really don't have much knowledge of Phil Klass and havn't examined his work other than this lecture, and that only briefly. Thus all the standard disclaimers apply. CMR ###